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Talk:Barrayaran titulature
You sure about Madamoiselle? KarenHunt (talk) 23:35, October 8, 2018 (UTC) - Just checked this one: I'd missed the passage in CVA where Ivan explains Madame and Mademoiselle (and more) to Tej and Rish. KarenHunt (talk) 22:06, March 7, 2019 (UTC) 'Vortala' I assumed the Prime Minister Vortala was a collateral relative of a Count, and didn't have any title other than Prime Minister. 19:06, March 7, 2019 (UTC) He was the count. KarenHunt (talk) 22:06, March 7, 2019 (UTC) :Is he ever addressed with Prime Minister Vortala or spoke the people about Prime Minister Vortala than there has been no need to mention the title count as nobody could be confused with a uncomplete titulation? Greets Hauselfe StephenMS (talk) 12:56, March 16, 2019 (UTC) Yes, in Barrayar there are a few times. Here's one in speech (Barrayar, ch 2): "Herded men, mostly," answered Vorkosigan. "Prime Minister Vortala had a few votes that weren't as much in the bag as he claimed, and we worked them over, one or two at a time, behind closed doors. What you'll see tomorrow in the Council chambers isn't Barrayaran politics at work, just their result. Were you all right today?" References also exist, such as this (Barrayar, ch 5): They sat at a raised table set a little apart from the others, with Gregor, Kareen, Piotr, the Lord Guardian of the Speaker's Circle and his wife, and Prime Minister Vortala. There are even some where he's just called Minister (Barrayar, ch 9): What seemed troops of men, headed by Minister Vortala, came to see him at all hours. He never seems to get the combo-title of "Prime Minister Count" that Aral is routinely referred to by, though. KarenHunt (talk) 14:00, March 16, 2019 (UTC) As a note: that the Prime Minister and the count are the same person can be seen in Shards of Honor, ch 15: Vorkosigan, instantly alert, came to her side to look, then relaxed. "It's all right. Those are Count Vortala's men. He must be coming to visit my father. I'm surprised he found time to break away from the capital just now. I heard the Emperor's been keeping him jumping." A few minutes later a second flyer landed beside the first, and Cordelia had her first view of Barrayar's new Prime Minister. Good to see you again! KarenHunt (talk) 14:03, March 16, 2019 (UTC) :That has been what I ment. It is spoken about him when the title is mentioned. "His votes weren't quite sure" but he is not adressed personaly. When I speak about a person I do not need to name the full title. Only when I adress someone in person ("Prime Minister Count Vortala, would you plaese ...") the complete title has to be used. So one can not be sure if he lost the "Count" in the title or only in naming when spoken about. Greets Hauselfe StephenMS (talk) 14:49, March 24, 2019 (UTC) I think the main thing I can say to this is that we just don't see him addressed by name very often. When people refer to him, they might say "Vortala" or "Minister Vortala" or "Prime Minister Vortala" or "Count Vortala", but it's not very clear how people speak to him. I'd bet "Count X" (whatever his first name is) is reasonably common, since we see that for other Counts, but I wouldn't be able to say anything definitive for him. KarenHunt (talk) 15:12, March 24, 2019 (UTC) Ekaterin Vorsoisson Vorkosigan I am quite sure she was Madame Vorsoisson even when her husband was alive. Greets Hauselfe StephenMS (talk) 13:01, March 16, 2019 (UTC) I inserted this again, as on the page it is written: "After his death, but before marrying Miles Vorkosigan, she was 'Madame Vorsoisson'." That's wrong she was named Madame Vorsoisson the whole time when she has been married to Etienne and when she was widowed. Greets Hauselfe StephenMS (talk) 14:56, March 24, 2019 (UTC) Correcting that seems good, yes KarenHunt (talk) 15:05, March 24, 2019 (UTC)